Welcome back to another episode of the Take Your Shot podcast. Today I've got Andrea Shaw on and I cannot wait for this conversation. It's gonna be so good. She's a copywriter and has so much experience and knowledge.

So Andrea, welcome aboard. Do you mind introducing yourself and telling everyone a little bit more about who you are and what you do? Absolutely. So I am a website copywriter and I also do blogging for wedding professionals, other creative professionals, lots of photographers and service providers who want to be the last tab standing in their ideal client's browser at the end of the day.

So we do that through a little bit of SEO, your unique brand voice, and also taking the incredible creative work you do and turning it into something that people can read about and understand and say, oh, I, really need that in my life. Whether that's at their wedding or it's at their baby shower, or it's just something you do for their business.

I love that the last tab standing. Are you kidding me? I, that's hilarious. Listen, I love it. Listen, and that is a battle. I am a, I am a 50 tabs open at all times, sort of person. So to be the last tab standing in my browser means you've really achieved something. It's amazing. Yeah, no, I'm like a multiple tab, multiple windows.

'cause my tabs get too small to click through, so that resonates hard for me. So good. My husband will come over and be like, do you think you have enough tabs open? Do you wanna try opening a few more? And I was like, listen, I don't come and judge you at your workstation, but I also get the judgment.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's totally fair. They can, and maybe it's a millennial thing. Maybe it's a millennial thing, I don't know. Yep. , I love it. But anyway, okay. Tell us about how you got started in copywriting. What made you wanna become a writer and, and really serve businesses in this way?

So I got my start as a writer, , actually as a translator. I studied translation formally and then ended up taking that into a job where I worked on translating websites. And that was kind of my introduction to the world of copywriting and seeing all the great stuff that big brands did. We had, we were a small company, but we had an incredible client brand book.

And so I saw what the big telecommunications companies did with copy and what up and coming fashion companies did with copy. And it was like a gradual shift for me that I really wanted to do this. I really wanted to create unique brand voices. I will say that I fell into working with creative industry clients and wedding industry clients pretty much by happenstance.

I did it and I loved writing about something that took place in the real world that was this tangible experience that someone creates. And the challenge of taking that tangible experience and selling it to someone on a website is something I really relish. So I've been at that for about five years now.

Amazing. And you know, I think right now those experiences and stories like that is so, so critical. That is something that, and I'm sure we'll get into it as we talk more, but like in this day and age, that's what people are re relating to. Like right now we kinda live in a world, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this.

We're just like, so much is being generated by ai, written by ai, where it's like really losing the. That experience part of things like, sure, it might sound smart, but it's not actually built on any sort of foundation of like, I don't know, expertise or experience. So, so much there to talk about with that.

But , anyway, curious too has you been kind of like doing this for five years? What are some of the biggest, , lessons you've learned and like reasons why you think quality copywriting is critical for a business? So I think that especially when someone's buying something from you that's a relatively expensive offer, and they don't know you, they're looking at other people too.

And you should, you should always look at multiple people for anything you buy. If I'm gonna renovate my bathroom, I'm gonna get three quotes. But you want a sense of personality, it makes. Sticky in someone's mind helps you stand out. The other thing I think is just you need to show up where they're looking for you and copy is what really does that.

At the end of the day, you can have the most beautiful portfolio, but if you're not showing up where people are searching, it's not gonna make a huge difference. You need to be out in front of those people. And then the other thing is for aesthetic businesses. I saw this on like this. Artistic Instagram, and it was really impactful for me.

They said, people wanna be told how to think about your visual work. So whether you're a florist or a photographer or any other kind of design related creative, just like in an art museum where they put works together in a certain way and they give you context for each piece, and they tell you a little bit about an artist style.

People want guidance. They want to know what language to use to describe your work. They want to be told how to see it, and we need to think like that when presenting aesthetic work. Photographers especially people want to know. What you want them to take away from your work when they're looking at it. I really love that example because yeah, at the museums you've got the didactic, which tells you the context history kind of artist perspective of it.

And I'll be honest, like walking through an art museum, I think that's a great example of , you know, you're walking through, you're looking at the pieces and it's. I don't know what this is. You know that banana on the wall, like, I don't know what to think of that. Like just duct taped to the wall.

I mean, it clearly was valuable. Someone paid like what a million dollars or so for it. But, um, and I don't know if it was a didactic that sold it or the critical part. Maybe this is the worst example 'cause I don't know anything about the banana. Was the, because it's just like people, someone wanted to be like, well I paid a million dollars for a banana that stuck taped to a wall.

But yeah, totally. I think there's a lot of . Artistic history and aesthetic influences and all the stuff that goes into making your work, not rec replicable by ai, by someone else, but you need words to convey that a little bit. Because people sometimes, especially if they're not experienced with the kind of work that you do, they don't know how to talk about it.

They don't know how to describe it. You even want to, if someone's. Looking, you know, if they're planning a wedding and they're gonna go talk to their planner, or they're gonna go talk to their partner, you wanna give them language to talk about what they liked about your work so that they can reference it later, and they can say to their planner, Jane, this is what I want and here's why I liked it.

That's really important because a lot of times people are starting out without any idea of how to describe what they like. They just know it when they see it and they know it when they don't like something. , I can like interior design and me is a good example. I can flip through an issue of an architect, a architectural digest, and I can tell you what I do and don't like, but I can't necessarily tell you why you have to be the one to give them that.

Why. Totally. And I think I like how you're just framing it, of just setting your clients up for success in that. And if you're making it less confusing, more tangible, giving them the vocabulary, like you're then giving them exactly what they're gonna be able to latch onto. So when they come back to it, it's that because you're the one who gave them the language for it.

I think that's huge. Yes. And I think especially with photos, people want the language to describe like different editing styles, different. Like approaches to photography. So your documentary and your photo journalistic work versus your very editorial versus honestly what I think 99% of wedding clients really want, which is a mix of the two at some per some percentage of each.

You really want to give people the language to talk about that sort of approach, knowing that also they might need a little education that what they've seen on TikTok or what they've seen on Pinterest might not be a 100% accurate description. I think so many people come in saying. I want Photojournalistic work and they love Candid, but they don't know that if they truly had a Photojournalistic photographer, they might not get that post portrait of them with the grandparents that they actually really want.

Totally. And I think too, as you're establishing this language and really guiding the process for these couples too, it also builds trust. And I know one thing that we kinda were gonna talk about today is just like how you can really build that trust with your clients.

I'd love to hear about what your thoughts are and how you think that copy plays a role in really establishing yourself as the authority and trustworthy, you know, positioned business to serve them. Do you have any. Insights on that or thoughts around just kind of building that trust with clients through copy?

Yes, and I think to start off, I think it's important to understand why there's kind of what we call a trust recession, which is a little bit of a cliche, but that's what it is. One is I think we're all questioning the authenticity of everything. We now, we're seeing there's a ton of AI out there. There's people who are using other people's work.

There's all this kind of stuff out there, and so people question the authenticity of what they're seeing. The other thing is the algorithm, pretty much no matter what platform you're on, loves a horror story. It's just like with local news and how they used to lead with gory or surprising stories, because that's what people listen to.

You'll see the same thing on TikTok, the video about, I had a beautiful wedding and it went great, and I loved my photos, and my makeup was perfect. Is not going to get as many views as the one where someone paid $2,000 for a makeup artist and the foundation didn't match their skin and then they couldn't, like not picking on makeup artist just saying those horror stories are what the algorithm loves.

So that's what you're working against when you come into this business, is trying to build trust in the face of all that. And your copy really does build trust because it shows your process, it shows your experience, your images of your work can show what you're capable of, but they don't actually put into words.

I've been doing this for 10 years. I've seen a lot of stuff I've seen everything you can throw at me. Like I know you have stories, you have seen a lot of stuff in your time. And it's like that is what people are ultimately paying for a lot of the time when they're paying for high-end creative work is someone who can be like, Nope, throw it all at me and I will still come out of it.

Having done beautiful work and I'm gonna be a pleasure to be around, but they don't know one, if they can trust people to deliver on that without some kind of copy. And two, the other important element of copy is that as a writer, we're always pulling in elements of social proof to make sure that it's not just you saying you're phenomenal, it's other people and other.

Kind of approved sources, magazines, organizations saying, no, this person really is capable of everything they say and show they're capable of doing. 100%. And I think too, just on that point of, , it's not just the photos that you're gonna build that trust. Like people need to build it off of that experience.

Because if you think about it, like whether it's with AI or honestly cameras these days, phone cameras these days, so many people. The accessibility for people to be able to take quality photos. The bar is pretty low. Like people aren't really paying for the photos anymore. They're paying for that experience that comes with it.

Mm-hmm. Whether or not they know that and you know, those horror stories. I think why we hear so much of them is because there are a lot of people doing this business that maybe shouldn't be doing this business. Right. Or they don't really have that. Experience. They have a good portfolio, but then their, everything they've built is actually not theirs or it's built on lies.

, And so then, you know, people are having these horrible experiences and it, it's kind of the cyclical thing. So just to kinda get back to the conversation though, it's like, you know, when you're building that trust, I think there's a lot of things that go into that Now, do you have any frameworks or recommendations for people who are like, oh man, you're right.

Like I. I haven't really thought about my copy in that way. How would you guide someone to really start implementing or really focusing on their copy in a way to really build that trust? I always start with the objections that your ideal client might have, and I think you need to go online and you need to read what people are saying about you, especially when they think you're not listening.

And I'm saying this as a general, you. You don't need to search for people saying mean things about you personally. I don't recommend that, but go and find out what. Stressing someone out when they're looking to hire a wedding photographer, a newborn photographer, a florist, what are the concerns that they're bringing to the table?

What are they seeing? And how can you pull out a specific piece of your process, your experience, your expertise, and address that in your copy? And it doesn't necessarily need to be like, worried, I'm going to ghost you. Don't worry, I'm not going to. It. That's not what we wanna do, but maybe you see that people are really worried you.

One thing I see expressed all the time lately about wedding vendors is that a percentage of them are just not great with communication. And so how can you emphasize what you're doing on communication to address that so that people feel comfortable from the very beginning that this is someone who's gonna respond to my emails promptly, that they've got systems in place.

You need to look at what is worrying people and then respond to those individual concerns. Totally. And I think that, yeah, knowing those objections and also in some ways knowing what maybe your competitors aren't doing, so let's just use that example of the communication piece. If you know that's a place where so many people drop the ball, well then what can you do to really excel in that area, building that trust where other people probably wouldn't even think of that as a trust building point, you know?

So I love that. Yes. Huge fan of looking at what your competitors are doing. Not so that you can copy them, but so you can look for a little gap that they're not filling. And it might just be a personality thing, it might be a process piece. It might be something that's absent from their portfolio. They could be a nice person doing phenomenal work, and there's still something that you can do slightly differently to fill that gap in your market.

Maybe. They have a great portfolio in a lot of ways, but they don't depict people of all ages or something like that. And you can be like, okay, great. There's a little gap that I can fill, to just add in some, to do something a little bit differently so that two people looking at our portfolios are gonna see something slightly different.

You can never guarantee that you're always gonna be the one chosen and that's okay. 'cause you can't work with every single person out there. It's physically not possible. But there I recommend looking for little gaps like that. Totally looking for the gaps. And then also just like knowing probably too, like what are the most likely the pages that they're gonna be looking at, where you can establish that trust.

Now when people are thinking, okay, where should I focus first? We talked a little bit about that communication and looking for the gaps. , What else would you say on someone's website or contact form should they be really focusing on, , when it comes to really establishing that trust or really making sure that your copy , is key in those areas?

So I would say, I think your about page is really fundamental for that. , First things first. Have a picture of yourself on there. If you are a personality based kind of personal brand, have yourself, if you are more of a company, have a photo of the team, have individual photos of people they might interact with, but really get some photos on there.

Images, I'm a copywriter, but I'm still gonna tell you images matter for that trust building. I also think one thing people overlook is using their years of experience mentioning those, mentioning places where they've been published or organizations they belong to. All these outside. People that can kind of give a little stamp of approval on your about page.

But I also wanna see some personality. I wanna know there's a person behind the business. If you're a personal brand, you can get a little personal, you can share some fun facts. But even if you're not, what is the founder's story? Why did they create this business? Why did they come to this? And how do you approach it a little bit differently than someone else?

Because you, do you approach it differently from someone else? We just need to know how. I love that. So you recommend starting with the about page and then, , anything else kind of on the website that you think , okay, if you had to focus on maybe these couple things, like about page pivotal, right?

Like that people are gonna definitely wanna know what you're about, that's a huge thing for building trust. But maybe what are some other areas that you'd say like, oh, these are some places you should focus. I love a frequently asked question section. I feel like that's a really good way to address some concerns that people have and you know, kind of put them forward.

And it also has the bonus of like. Someone who's already committed to you doesn't have to read through it all, but someone, those detail oriented readers who wanna know everything, they're gonna go through that. And so you can answer more specific questions that way. There are lots of different types of buyers out there, and some people really do want an answer to every question before they get on a call with you.

Those are the people who might wanna know for a photographer. Will you sell me the raw files? Will you send me a full gallery upon request? And so you can address those questions up ahead of time. And even just by putting the answer on the table, even if the answer is no, sometimes that really helps, , just to say, okay, I know what I'm getting here.

, Other places where I like to see some trust building on your website. I mean, your testimonials are so crucial. You should have testimonials on every page. Do not put them all on one reviews page. Put a testimonial on every page of your site, the homepage, the contact page, , your portfolio page, and let your happy clients do some of the talking for you.

I love that. And you know, I could tell you how great I am, but it's gonna be way more powerful if like people who've been in your shoes are telling you how great I am. Right? Exactly. Exactly. And sometimes they use different language than you would, and when you hire a copywriter, that's one thing we do is we try to.

Blend your voice with the language your clients use. But one of the best ways to do that is just by pulling in that language that they use and saying, this is how they talk about it. 'cause oftentimes we get in the weeds with our own business and we talk, we start talking to clients the way we talk to an industry friend, and they don't always know what we're talking about.

They don't have the terminology and the context that we do. You know, especially when it comes to weddings. The vast majority of your clients, I think there's a statistic from The Knot and it's like 91% are getting married for the first time. And even the clients who are getting married for not the first time, , it's not like they've, the majority of them haven't done it 10 times.

They're, most of them are probably on their second wedding. This is not like going to the grocery store. It's not an experience that we've all had a ton of times. Exactly, but as the expert that you know, the service that you're providing, whether it's photography or something else, it's like you've guided people through this how many times and so Yeah.

How can you like, make sure that you're positioning yourself to be like, yeah, like this doesn't have to be the scary, overwhelming, once in a lifetime thing that you've, you know, only waited your entire life for and saved all your money for, to have everyone come celebrate this big day. , In the case of weddings, it's a huge investment too.

Yeah. With weddings especially, I think it's really helpful to remember it is a huge investment for people. Um. I mean like how often do we go out? Unless you're super wealthy, how often do you go out and spend four figures on something in your life that's not a car or rent or your house? , It's just not that common.

And yet in weddings, we ask people to do this, and so that trust is so critical. Totally. And that's the piece where when they're making this investment, and I always say it to anyone I'm coaching, it's just if they're, , if someone , is trusting you with their wedding day, that is a huge honor and privilege, not something to be taken lightly.

Like you better believe that showing up, being worth not only what they're paying but you, but then some, you know, it is , so important, especially as you're trying to grow. And you know, at the end of the day too, like , their wedding is something that they can't. Redo. It's not something that, oh, you messed up their first kiss.

You can't have them go redo it. I mean, sure, maybe you could do it, um, and try to fake it, but if you miss the toast, if you don't push record on the speeches and you're filming it, like all these things, like you cannot redo a wedding day. So being. Very sharp and being very much like worthy of what they're hiring you to do is important.

And then also with people and all the horror stories that you've like, you know, obviously those are kinda the things that going on. There's this even bigger level of trust of like you have to earn to show that you're not gonna do those things. So how are you showcasing and fool proofing your processes?

How are you explaining that? Yeah, you know, I don't go to sleep until your photos are backed up in multiple places because. That's important, right? Or what do you do if your house burns down? , Oh, we've got them uploaded on the cloud. That's happening overnight. , Like literally. Things like that people care about.

And that's something that I think as you're building trust , and talking about it in your copy, like they don't want you to mess this up, you know? Yes. They're trusting you. And I think that also addresses one of the big kind of myths about the wedding industry out there, which is that there's a wedding tax for, you know, that if someone comes in and they tells you, they tell you they're having a.

Retirement party, you're gonna charge less and for or for no reason. And that's the thing, like you might charge less for a cake for a retirement party. Or photos for retirement party. But there are so many reasons why, and when you start addressing some of these issues in your copy, you start making it clear to people why it costs what it does.

Because like you and I've written websites for people where we make it clear like there isn't a redo. You're not gonna get the same people in the same room again to do the same thing. Whereas if you miss. Photos at a one year old's birthday party. It's a huge bummer, but you can do a really cute photo shoot staged with the 1-year-old the next day and do a cake smash and they're gonna go ham anyways and it's gonna be super fun.

So weddings, I feel like you do need to make sure people are understanding that , okay, your wedding cake, you're probably going to email me about it 10 more times than you would the retirement party cake. You know, like there you just type in. Congratulations Bob. We want some green balloons. And like all of this stuff, it comes at a price of communication.

It comes at a price of care and backing things up and all of that sort of thing. I mean, it comes at the cost of having someone carry a wedding cake to wherever you're getting married and take cake bakers when they're carrying the cakes outta the car. That must be like the most tense moment, , I don't know how they do it.

Honestly, anytime the cake is , I'm like, I'm not moving the cake. It's there. We're gonna keep it there. If someone, if it needs to be moved, we're gonna find someone who's worthy of moving it. 'cause I'm not taking that well then who is worthy of moving it? I would stay like 15 feet away too. At all times.

Yeah. To get like terrified. Yeah. Hilarious. I will say I have had a couple horror stories where there have been things that have happened with the cake. Usually behind the scenes, like I'll show up and I'll be like, oh, what's this cake? I thought they were, and they're like, oh, don't ask about the cake. And I'm like, oh, okay, cool.

Like something happened. It's fine. They might be bummed, but. You know, depending on how much they spent on the cake, like, I don't know, there, there's worse things that could go wrong, but that's a common one, 1.1%.

But yeah, I feel like I've seen some horror stories too where people were like, , what was the one, someone delivered the cake and they asked for like a fridge to put it in. 'cause it was an outdoor wedding and it couldn't sit out for a few days. And the onsite coordinator was like, Nope, we don't really have one.

Just leave it on the table. And the baker was like, can you like write this down and sign it for me because I know how this is gonna go. And it's gonna be a melted, like heap of butter and sugar in about one hour in the summertime. And yeah, as a cake fan, I would be, it would be a little tragic for me, but, um, you know, that's a personal thing.

, Totally. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll have my cake, but I, yeah, I, I'd rather have the cake. Go wrong then like the arches fall or the flowers die and everything. Not, you know. But that also is like, the cake is one photo, and I'm just saying from a photography perspective, cake is one photo. You know, the dress, the wedding dress is every photo.

So that's also how I'm viewing the cake. Anyway. . Um, so just kinda shifting the conversation, I'd love to hear kind of your take on how copy can help solve the issue of people who are getting ghosted. Like whether they're not getting people reaching out, or maybe they do reach out and then they just never hear back, , curious to hear what are you seeing and what's working and what's not working.

So, I love talking about inquiry forms because I think they're one of the like lowest lift things that you can change in your business that you can DIY. And can make a really big difference. So first and foremost, one thing I see people a little bit frustrated by is when there's a ton of open-ended, pitch Me Your Love story kind of questions and.

We, we were talking a little bit before we got started about Gen Z, and I think one thing I've noticed is that they're inquiring with a lot of vendors and they are fine with having those more personal conversations once they know that you're in their price range and you're available on their date. But they don't want to answer a ton of questions before they have that information.

So one thing I recommend is, unless you are at a position where you get more leads than you can possibly book and you wanna filter people out, which. Is a wonderful place to be in. Ask one open-ended question where they can tell you everything. And the person who wants to write one sentence says, we're having an outdoor wedding on June 1st.

They can write one sentence and the person who wants to write 16 paragraphs tell you their entire story start to finish. They can do that, but don't ask them a lot of open-ended questions until you're later in the process. And then another thing I'd like to see on inquiry forms more is a budget checkpoint.

If you are listing pricing elsewhere on your site, or even if you're not, it's a really great idea to have a, it can either be just a text box or it can be a dropdown where they can tell you a little bit about their planned investment in your category, or if you're a planner, more about what their planned investment is total.

Because one, it just helps them step back a little bit and be like, okay, wait, maybe this person isn't in my price range. , But another thing is that. You can put it everywhere on their site, and we all know that they don't necessarily read, but at least if it's a required question on your inquiry form, they have to read it there and they have to put something.

I am not promising you, I'm not a miracle worker, that you will get no inquiries from people under budget, but I do think that helps because a lot of what we see is ghosting now is people who fire off a ton of inquiries, especially if they can't see your pricing, and then the second they get your pricing.

They just dip because they don't wanna do it is a little embarrassing and intimidating to be like, Hey, I can't afford this. So instead they just disappear. And that's one of the better ways to avoid. Avoid that. I agree. I think that it's just really good to give them at least a starting thing. , Give them at least a starting point because Yeah, people don't wanna spend time on something or go on a date with someone that they know they're not gonna marry.

Right. Like, you just, this is just kinda like wasting time on your end too, because that, depending on how you have to backup of your Yes. On, you know. , I and you said it so well, like someone doesn't wanna like reach out, find out that it's outta their price range, and then feel embarrassed that they even reached out because you know, that's just not setting you up for success or them up for success.

So having some sort of. Transparency on your website, whether it's starting at or a range, or even just a place where they can express what their kind of budget range is like. Having something tangible for that sense , is really important. , Especially before the call, because if you hop on a call and then they learn that they can't afford you, that's like even more time wasted.

So yeah. Yours and theirs. I think that's one really important thing is all of this is saving. Them time, but it's also saving you time. If you are getting on calls with people and you're consistently hearing that their budget is half of what you normally charge. You need to finesse something too because I want you to have your time back in your day.

I would rather you have four hours to spend on marketing two ideal clients than spend four hours on calls with people who are never gonna be able to book your package in the first place. Totally. Totally. And there are different markets and pricing as a whole other strategy where, you know, not having your pricing as a part of a strategy, but you're usually working with a lot of, planners who are referring and they do custom stuff.

So if you're in that area, like that's a little bit different, but the volume based or just honestly Gen Z or. Different buyer types. Like we're in that weird transition where there's just, there's a lot of different factors that play a role. And so I love how you're just bringing it back to the, like, how are you establishing that trust and really making it easy?

They know their next step. They know that they're not wasting their time. That's where I think it's just, it's really important. So, um, yeah. And then I guess on other. Topics in terms of making sure that people are, not ghosting and that you're actually staying top of mind.

Any other things that you're seeing in terms of copy? Really helping people through, , the process of booking, different client work? Yes. I would say when you have your inquiry form one, let them know when they're gonna hear from you. So give them that reassurance when they're gonna hear from you.

And two, if you can. Automate your response and automate some follow ups. It's really, really beneficial because we're all busy, , and again, think about how many vendors people are inquiring with a lot of times for weddings or even if they're just looking for someone for a one-off photo shoot or something like that.

A follow up. Is really important sometimes, and you do not have to, you and I, I know you and I are both dato people, so I'll just say it outright like you do not have to go and sit there and manually write follow-ups for people. You shouldn't be doing that. Sometimes you're gonna wanna personalize them a little bit, but I want everyone to have automated inquiry responses and automated follow ups.

If they don't book a call with you so that you're just there reminding people like, Hey, I'm here for you. You don't have to remind them for months. You don't have to send 57 emails, but if you're responding to their inquiry, and then if they ghost never reaching out again, how many sales might you be leaving on the table in the course of a year?

Totally. And honestly too on that point, I've noticed that a lot of people are just feeling overwhelmed because again, gen Z, let's just kind of talk about that. 'cause it's what we've been talking about. Yeah. But like they are inquiring with so many other people. So if they just get one email from you, and maybe they.

Forget to market as on red, and it just gets lost in the infinity of the inbox, right? Like they're not gonna come back to that. So having that follow up actually is really important. And to remember to do that every single time, especially depending on how many inquiries you're getting, I mean, that's a lot of work in your brain that you're gonna have to do manually if you're not setting up a process for that.

, And so, yeah, it is actually very, very important to do that. And I've had so many people come back and be like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I haven't responded. Like I totally forgot, or I've been traveling or. You know, things like that. Like to just get acknowledgement and then be like, Hey, no worries. Like I just wanna make sure it didn't get lost.

Like people aren't ever gonna be mad at you for following up. They more so appreciate it because things get lost in the shuffle, especially when you're planning a big event like a wedding. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be extensive. You don't have to follow up. Like I said, don't feel like you have to follow up 17 times or whatever, but just strip out a couple emails.

The last one oftentimes that I recommend people use, I call it the Closing the Loop email. Some people call it the magic email, but it's basically like, Hey, I'm assuming that you've already booked a vendor for this, or I'm assuming that you've moved on. Um, you know, please let me know if things change Two sentences.

And you'd be surprised sometimes people come back and they're like, oh, hey, no, it totally isn't the case that we've moved on. We really do wanna work with you. We've just also been booking a caterer and a florist and all that, and we were meaning to circle back with you. So you'd be surprised that sometimes what one little closing the loop email can do.

Just don't check it out. Don't write three paragraphs like one line. Try it. Marketing is an experiment. That's what I always tell people. Try something a little bit. If it doesn't work, once you have the data that it doesn't work, you have permission to stop doing it. But if things aren't going exactly the way you want in your business, try something new.

Experiment for a month or two and see where it takes you. I couldn't agree more, especially with just like how fast times change too, and generations change and algorithms change. I mean, you just don't know what works if you don't try it. So I love that. Yeah. Just giving permission. You guys heard it from Andrea today.

You've got permission to treat your marketing like an experiment. I'm like, what works? What doesn't? Gather the data and learn what works for you in your market. Because what works for one might not work for another, you know? Yeah, exactly. Like what works and by market it could be your location, it could be the pricing tier you're at, it could be the style of person you appeal to.

There's so many factors that I always tell people like what worked for someone else? Even an icon in the industry doesn't necessarily work for you. You have to just try it and see, and you have to give yourself permission to fail occasionally, . Some things aren't gonna be a smash hit. There's, I'm very pro pricing on websites, but there's someone I follow on threads who's like, listen, I used to be pro pricing and I'm not against it, but I took my prices off my site and I started getting better inquiries and booking more clients.

And I'm like, great, and that works for you and that I want you to keep doing that. And if in six months from now it's not working anymore, change things up. Totally. I also am just like a big experimenter, I think partially because I am just in the education space, so I'm always just kind of curious of like, oh, what can I push here?

What can I do that, like, you know, so I, I would say whether or not I have pricing on my website sometimes changes because I'm always just like testing the market and seeing what's working. But , yeah, I think that like, you know, I think as business owners too so often, on this topic of experimenting, it's like people put so much pressure and they think, oh, if I were to change that, okay, I need to get permission.

I need to do this, I need to do that. Like they think that all these decisions are just like huge. When in reality you just log in, put something on there. I. See what happens and come back to it. Not everyone's looking at your business. People aren't gonna talk about the fact like, oh, can you believe so and so just put this on their website.

Like, no, I think we think that people are watching us way closer than we are. So, um, just knowing that these things don't have to be a big deal. They might feel like a big deal, but it's not scary to increase your prices or it's not scary to like, add something to your website , or change something here and there.

Like these things are, are small steps that you can take and they all make a difference and it's really just figuring out what works. And you should have a website where you feel free to go on and tweak things a little bit. I really encourage people whenever possible to choose a platform on a design where you're not terrified to go change a line of copy or something like that, because things change in your business too.

You might let go of an employee and need to remove their bios. So I really recommend that if you're choosing a website platform, choose one where you can go make little tweaks yourself and you're not gonna be scared about it. I love that. Yeah. I think there's so many platforms out there, so choosing what's right for you is, is so, so important.

And you know, kind of on this topic, Andrea, I'd love to hear your thoughts on actually the visibility piece. Like we can talk about converting and building trust all the time, but at the end of the day, if people aren't finding you, none of this really matters. So what are you seeing in terms of like. SEO AI and how copy has played a role in people gaining more visibility for their business.

So I would say if you're seeing headlines that say, SEO is dead, it's not, there's an enormous amount of overlap in what works for traditional search in. Google or if you used another search engine, , if you're a Bing user or something like that, and what works to get found in chat GPT or a Claude or whatever AI tool is of the moment.

I will say that AI tools are different from Google in one way. They, it's really hard to reproduce the results, entering the same query over and over again. Will a lot of times. Give different results, but still what's working is copy, like they're looking for words on your website. Ultimately, both search engines and AI tools need words on your website.

They like data. So AI tools, love numbers. They love knowing how long you've been in business, how many weddings you've done or sessions you've photographed. They love pricing so that they can create little compare and contrast tables that they can show to people. And then the other thing that's important is making sure your website gets linked somewhere.

So whether that means writing blog posts that other people are going to want to link to doing guest posts on other people's blogs, having a PR strategy where you are getting published and getting links to your website, that all counts for a lot, both with SEO and with what we call GEO or A IEO or there's probably, it sounds like Old McDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O, but like just all the different tools that are out there right now.

You wanna make sure you're, you have a strategy to get other people to link to your website because that shows that you're a person with some authority, that you're someone to be trusted and that gets your content to show up more. Because showing up is really important. If you come to me and you tell me you don't have enough leads, you probably need a strategy to make sure you're showing up in search and make sure you're showing up in ai 100%.

And you know. It is important for your business to show up not only to events, not only to these things, but also online, and whether that's through social media or in these searches, which is honestly, I think I read somewhere that a lot of people are planning their wedding using AI Now these days, like as, as much as we either love it or hate it, right?

Like I think there's. A spectrum of feelings around that. So don't hang up on us right now. But, , but that is just the reality. So, , how are we adapting and how are we leveraging our copy, as you're saying, , to make sure that it's optimized in a way to where you can show up.

So I think that's really critical and I think it's a big piece of the conversation. Yes. And if you want one tip on how to show up better in SEO, one easy thing you can do, go to all the different platforms where your business shows up, be that your website. Your LinkedIn profile, if you have one, your Google Business profile.

If you're on platforms like Carrots and Cake, the Knot Zola, and make sure your business name is exactly the same across all of those platforms, down to the spelling, the capitalization, the spacing, everything. Because both types of search are looking for ways to connect the dots across the internet and recognize that this person is the same on Facebook as they are on.

Google business as they are on their website. I'll give you a pass for Instagram. 'cause usually your Instagram handle, it's , really hard sometimes to get it to match your company name. So that doesn't seem to be as much of a big deal. But you want, they call it signals and you want all your signals to match and that'll help you show up better, especially if you are a local business that people seek to hire in a local area that will get you pushed to the top of those results.

Man, such a good tip. Okay, everyone, I need you to, as you're listening to us, push, pause, go do that right now. That's an , easy next step that you can do , to really help make sure that you're getting visibility on your website. Thank you for that tip, Andrea. And you know, as we're wrapping up today's episode, I feel like we've talked through so many different things.

So seriously, thank you for everything you've already shared. Is there any other tangible next steps that you recommend that our listeners could take? I would say revisit your website, , once a quarter. Just look at it, make sure everything on there is up to date. Make sure it feels like something that if you met a dream client at a networking event tomorrow.

You would feel good about sending them your website. You're not like, oh shoot, I wish I'd done that update I was thinking about six months ago. That's the biggest thing, and just little things change in your business all the time. So set yourself a task, set yourself a little checkpoint and check in with your website and make it, make sure it feels good.

And if not, you know, reach out to somebody to help you. Whether that is a copywriter, an SEO specialist, a web designer, a whole team. You know, there's, there's a moment where if you are getting to the point where you're going to a networking event, but the moments when asked for your site, you're like, oof, , I don't wanna give you that.

Then that may be the moment where you need to rethink doing your website. 100%. And I think that that's so good. And there's, like you mentioned, there's just so many different ways that you can actually get the help you need. So I think that that's a huge first step that you can take. If you're maybe listening to this, you're like, man, this is all really good stuff.

And I just would love to have someone help me with that. That's where the experts come in. And so Andrea, obviously you offer this, do you wanna tell people a little bit more about just kind of. What you offer and where people can find you. We'll have everything linked below, but would just love to hear a little bit more of kind of like what types of things you can help people with.

Yeah, absolutely. And what I primarily do is done for you website copy. So it's super simple. You come to me and you're like, please write my website for me. Don't make me do this myself. I don't wanna look at Google. I don't want any of that. And I will find your keywords. I will write your copy. You get a week of unlimited edits.

It's a quick turnaround, and we'll get you however big of a website you need, whether you're somebody who needs just three solid pages or something much bigger. We will get you what you need. I will tell you what you need. I will tell you what I honestly think your business will benefit from. And then I also do blogging.

So if you have a great website already. And you wanna just show up a little bit more. Blogging is one of the best ways to really start putting out great content that helps you get found, helps people get excited about working with you and gets more eyes on that website so that you can convert those people into customers.

So I would love to work with any of you on both of those. , And yeah, I'm also just love to chat on like Instagram or threads about all this good stuff. I have a newsletter where I give marketing advice once a week as well. If you wanna subscribe. Amazing. Love that so much. So everyone, you're listening.

Go ahead. Go to the show notes, click on her stuff, follow her, message her. She's seriously so amazing. So Andrea, you are amazing and we are so thankful that you came on today's episode. So thank you for your time and for everyone listening. We'll see you next week.